Ammunition

Hi, I don't post here much but I do like to read. Its an interesting and cantankerous community. Very committed and it seems quite at odds.

I wrote a diary here a few weeks ago called "Pollyanna". I wrote as a supporter of both candidates. I was ultimately an Obama supporter and voter but I would have been happy with either. Two good Democrats, two great choices.

Now I'm reading EVERYWHERE that Obama is a flip-flopping bad Democrat or something. Really?

I'll save FISA for last but I'd like to talk about some of the other things first because I think they are monumentally important in a general election...to some they are more important than FISA despite all the sturm und drang in the blogosphere.

Iraq: I think that we all know he hasn't changed one whit since the beginning of his campaign. He will set the mission, and the strategy will be how best to remove the troops from Iraq. He will rely on his commanders in the field to develop the best tactical maneuvers to accomplish this task. Strategy and tactics. We get that, we're smart Democrats! We don't buy into bullshit like, "HE SAID REFINE!!!! WE'RE GONNA STAY IN IRAQ FOR A BAZILLION YEARS" right? We don't believe that. We as intelligent people understand that any responsible leader takes the security of the troops, the country and even (yes!) the country we are leaving into account to minimize harm to all and leave responsibly. Under Obama we WILL leave, we'll also leave the right way and with dignity and safety, as much as that can be accomplished, for all.

Faith-based Organizations: I'll just start by saying I'm an atheist...I know I can be a magical unicorn on the internet but I actually am an atheist...and a lesbian one to boot (oooh scary ;)) However I see this as being right in Obama's wheelhouse. He knows the good of these organizations, he worked with them when he first went to Chicago. The important thing here is that there is an infrastructure in place already with these types of church based organizations. No government program could ever replace what exists already. What the government can do is target grants to programs that are willing to abide by strict regulations regarding proselytizing and discrimination. George Bush set up his program more or less to encourage proselytizing and little else, David Kuo said as much. What Barack Obama is proposing is a bolstering of programs already working. Anyone who doesn't want to cut off aspects of their charity work when it comes to evangelizing or hiring practices...well they are quite free to not apply for grants. You see, despite my lesbian atheist wickedness, I actually believe that local community organizations both religious and secular are best equipped to deal with local problems...I know, I'm such a dreamer. He knows the value of local social infrastructure, and he wants to strengthen it. I get it, do you?

Abortion: I'll start by saying I've had one so I can speak from my own corner of experience. I was in a very blue state and had no trouble getting one at a VERY early stage. I've never been thrilled with my decision but it was what it was. I absolutely would never do it again personally, but I would also absolutely never infringe on anyone else's right to have one. Anyway. Obama used a very specific phrase here "mental distress". That is not an all-inclusive phrase when it comes to mental illness. What he is pretty clearly talking about is third-trimester panic. Not mental illness, not risk of suicide, just "oh shit for reasons xyz I want to become not pregnant anymore". I'm sorry, most people think that's a bullshit reason to get an abortion. Because most women at 6 months pregnant or more would not have an abortion based on this mythical panic based on nothing more than not wanting to be pregnant anymore. We're talking about hardly any woman. This is not a huge issue. We can make it one, sure, we can flip out about anything. This is not the issue to lose it on...he stood up when it counted on far more serious choice issues than this. The very concept of a John McCain Presidency in regards to this issue alone is terrifying.

OK, fine, I'll talk about it.

FISA: Yeah I fucking hate it. I do, it makes me crazy and angry. Or it did until I thought about it, marinated in it for awhile. So I'll go to my title for this one. Ammunition. As much as the above are ammunition this one is the worst for some obvious reasons...for example: Barack Obama wants terrorists to make all their plans on cellphones just like on "24" and he won't let the government do anything about it. Simple as that, he can't vote against it. He can try to strip immunity but he can't vote against it. It's simply too hard to explain the 4th amendment to the general public. I think we've all witnessed the fact that the extent of the understanding of the Constitution in this country is...First Amendment YAY free speech, Second Amendment YAY Guns...umm...umm...Fifth Amendment YAY that thing on TV where you get to not say anything if you did something bad or something...ummmm...blacks and women got to vote and we weren't allowed to drink and then we were again...umm. You see what I'm saying? Maybe I should be more open-minded about the thought processes of my fellow (ahemrepublicanamhem) Americans but my time on Earth has not inclined me that way.

Ammunition, all these things are ammunition. On the first 3 he barely trembled from his original positions, he said some nice words that work on the moderate wings of both parties and the folks in between, but he's still the same guy. On the last, it was pure bullet catching. Let the man become president so he'll be in a position to fix this...unless you're happy with it and I'm totally misunderstanding the complaints. ;)



Display:


Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 9)

I forgot the gun thing...ironic considering the title. Eh, we love our guns here. As much as they suck I'm over that as an issue, nothing seems to work anyway.

Sigh.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:03:26 AM EST

To be honest... (2.00 / 1)

...and maybe this is a difference between me and many other Democrats...

...but I'm with him on the gun thing.  I've lived in dangerous places in the past; if I hadn't been single when I lived there, if I'd had a wife and children, you're damn right I'd want to have something to defend them with.  An individual right to protect him/herself with a firearm, within reasonable regulations, is a good interpretation of the Second Amendment, in my opinion.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:35:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To be honest... (none / 0)

Yes, but the evidence overwhelming suggests that gun ownership is far more likely to hurt your family than to protect it. So on the 'protect myself' argument I am not convinced. That doesn't mean we should ban guns, but we should recognize the reality that guns are actually a terrible way to protect oneself.
I personally wish politicians would spend more time making the all-important distinction between rural and urban gun ownership. I live in a very urban environment and I don't think anyone here needs or should have handguns. But when I lived on a farm in Kansas I loved shooting rifles and shotguns!
www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:20:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To be honest... (2.00 / 1)

I've always been of the camp to say, if I have to legally license my dog (who is a sweetie and not dangerous in the least), you should legally have o register your gun (or guns)... simple as that.

Of course the NRA will posit the argument that a registry would provide a list wherein the government could come and take your gun, but with the 2nd Amendment protection in place, that really is a fallacious argument.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:31:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To be honest... (none / 0)

I heard someone on NPR here in DC actually make the argument that the Heller decision, having established that there is an individual right, will actually make it more difficult for groups like the NRA to argue against registration.... because now the government can't legally take away your gun.

I'm all for 100% registration.  To be honest, I'm all for laws requiring trigger locks.  But I think the individual right in and of itself is good, and SCOTUS was right to uphold it.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To be honest... (none / 0)

If gun ownership is an individual right then government must be very circumspect in regulating it. That is Scalia's argument in his first paragraph. Scalia's opinion gives the NRA very powerful ammunition against gun registration, arguing otherwise is absurd.


by souvarine on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:44:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To be honest... (none / 0)

I spent a while living in Kodiak, Alaska.  In fact we had those huge bears very close to where we lived.  If you were going fishing or berry picking, my advice is to take a cannon, especially when the mother bears have cubs.

Federal laws need to reflect the realities of all the states, not just the cities, and that includes Alaska.

I'm OK with guns.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 2)

Yes, Obama is a huge flip-flopper on guns. After all, he should've vowed to appeal the Supreme Court higher, to the Super-Duper Supreme Court!

Remember, candidates don't just react to a Supreme Court ruling clearly delineating an individual liberty, they REVERSE it!! They go after it head-on!! It's not like gun rights are a sensitive issue that Democrats nationally have stayed away from. (Hell, it's not like Hillary didn't praise guns and gun ownership in Pennsylvania!) No way, Obama should've started running on an anti-gun platform!

This is how this fake flip-flop meme has been created. Through terrible reporting by a media desperate to have a paint-by-numbers narrative this election.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:45:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (none / 0)

As a matter of fact that is exactly what the Republicans have done. They reversed the Supreme Court by packing it with conservatives.

I don't think asking that a Democratic president commit to fixing that, rather than acquiesce to it, is unreasonable.


by souvarine on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (none / 0)

He has to become President first.


by Mystylplx on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 05:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (none / 0)

Yes, "I'll pack the court with judges who will reverse this decision!" is a winning campaign pledge.

There are a ton of Democrats out there who agree with the decision. Unless you're Carolyn McCarthy, no one's going to be campaigning on gun control these days. For all the b.s. talk about "elitism," it's time others realize that not everyone sees it their way on guns.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:33:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (none / 0)

Mojo for writing your piece.

Obama is in the position of having taken many different sides of many issues including, but no limited to:

"Faith-based" initiatives.
Universal Health Care.
Tax Cuts/Tax Increases
Balanced Budgets.
Withdrawing from Iraq.
Abortion.
Black Liberation Theology.

Fortunately for him and for those he chooses to reward, he managed to win a big nomination anyway.  Good for him and them.

Provided he wins the election, and it would take a heroic effort on his part to lose it, he will do whatever he feels like doing, as his political past indicates.  When his campaign embraces the label "Pragmatic Progressive", we'll know what this is really all about.

You make a decent, if Machiavellian, case for Obama.  I disagree with you wholeheartedly on your FISA argument.  "The Fourth Amendment is too hard to explain to most Americans"???  And that is a reason to support weakening it???  There is no reason to believe Obama plans to change the bill when he's in office.  NONE.  You intimate that he will, as his campaign would like you to believe.  There is no evidence for this.

I thought Obama wanted to change politics.  That's what he claims his campaign is about.  If it's worth fucking fighting for, then fucking fight for it.  In this case, he's either a tool or a wuss.  Perhaps he can put out an ad clarifying this important issue.  I'll donate for that.

Enjoy your weekend.


by SuperCameron on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 1)

Look, I was speaking from personal experience with the FISA thing. I have yet to convince one person I know who wasn't already against it that this is an egregious offense against the constitution, they just don't get it. Perhaps I know more stupid people than average...I have no idea, but the lack of understanding I've encountered is astounding.

So Machiavellian my thinking may be, but I'm beyond caring at this point. 5 Months to go and I just want him to win, I'll have the next 4-8 years to kvetch and be disappointed :)


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 3)

Obama is in the position of having taken many different sides of many issues including, but no limited to:

Nonsense.


by Mystylplx on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 05:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 5)

about any of those issues except the FISA compromise. I love your take on it -- you make an excellent point. Voting against the bill would provide excellent fodder for attack ads in the fall.

Really, that's a fantastic observation. Thank you so much for posting this. It helps me a LOT. I may have to revise my opinion of his decision. Highly recommended, and I really hope it makes the list.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:11:49 AM EST

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 4)

Wow, thank you! I'm quite an admirer of yours!

It's funny, it was reading your diary and the comments that finally made me write this. I'm not angry or feeling the concern trolly vibe so much as wishing people were looking at this differently. We're sprinting for the finish line right now. I'm spitting nails re: the re-introducing of the FISA issue but maybe there was simply no putting off until next year...who knows. There it is like steaming turd on a platter, and Obama has to handle it as such.

C'est la vie!


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:17:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, and you certainly (2.00 / 4)

have an admirer in me. I honestly think this is the most helpful (to me personally) diary I've read in months. It's very rare that I become unreasonable, but the FISA issue got to me. I feel better about it now, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate this diary.

It puts the whole "compromise" thing in a new (and far more palatable) light. If his stance on FISA takes ammo from the GOP and helps put him in the White House, it was well worth it. I expect this is what some people have been trying to say all along, but I haven't noticed anyone put it as clearly as you have. Kudos from a much relieved Clintonista for Obama!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:32:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, and you certainly (2.00 / 3)

Well again a huge thank you from me. It's always a little nerve-wracking to post when you're not so much a posty kind of person. So your kind words are encouraging and I'm glad it made even one person feel better.

It's a hard thing because you know in your heart what is right but there is so much more to consider. I nevery had a doubt in my mind that either Barack or Hillary would renew our national commitment to the Constitution as President. Unfortunately I think they both would have been confronted with the same steaming turd before the election and most likely handled it the same way. It sucks badly, but we've all seen exactly this sort of thing take down good people. We have 5ish months to get a grip. These things can be fixed, a McCain presidency cannot.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:44:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 2)

Unless that was really excellent snark...looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue :)


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:31:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 3)

God, get a room already!


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:46:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 1)

Will you pay for video?


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:50:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 2)

I have a feeling you are two chicks, right?


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:51:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 1)

I have a feeling you didn't read the diary...that would give you a clue as to my sex. I'm feeling like I should troll rate you but I'm new so I'm trying to be kind :)


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:54:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 2)

I read the diary.  It was the dueling comments that lead me to guess your gender.

I should troll rate you for soliciting me for pornography.  But, I'll let it go...just because I'm such a nice guy.

Also, I'm a great big homosexual who couldn't possibly be interested in your girl-on-girl action.  

Have fun!


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 2)

Ah, yes...see your snark meter was broken and my gaydar was broken. Sucks to be us.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:02:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 2)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:55:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 1)

I shouldn't have played with it...oh well.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:57:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, its always a bad idea before a hot date.


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:00:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, at least he rec'd the diary! n/t (2.00 / 2)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey, at least he rec'd the diary! n/t (2.00 / 1)

Well hell, now I feel better. He doesn't want porn he just wants to be sorta rude and yet rec. He's one of them angry Democrats.

YAY

wanna make out? kidding, I'm kidding


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey, at least he rec'd the diary! n/t (2.00 / 2)

How was I rude?


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:05:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey, at least he rec'd the diary! n/t (2.00 / 2)

sorta rude is entirely different than rude

FIGGY/SRICKI 08


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:07:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 3)

Does that mean I'm VP, or does that just make me the bottom? ;)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:09:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 3)

Oh sweetie, we'll Jello wrestle for the top billing. HELLO


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:12:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 2)

Now, that could make you girls a LOT of money.  I see an HBO special.  You know, instead of debates.  Those are sooo tired.  This, not so much.


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:14:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 3)

OK, speaking as a hetero guy myself, I was annoyed by the heterosexual girl-on-girl comment above, but you're not making it easy to stay annoyed.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:16:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 2)

Uh, I really don't know what to say.

Girls?!?!?!


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:17:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 2)

Did someone say money?

YAY money YAY

I'm pretty sure I can turn my 2-pack into an 8-pack, for realz...and then, and then whathisface and I will get married and exploit Sricki and then and then...I'll finally get my pony. YAY.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:21:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 2)

Wow. Man. That sounds like a plan!


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:22:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 1)

Oh quandriple YAY

Hey hubby, do boobs count as two of the 6 pack?


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:24:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 2)

i think that question was meant for someone else.

i just read the word 'pony' and the only word that registered was 'plan'.  

Boobs.... Not my department.


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:27:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oooh, I love being exploited! n/t (2.00 / 3)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:25:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 3)

Yes, you three should start a joint blog consisting of nothing but this. It'd be like a combination between Will & Grace, the Marx Brothers and the McLaughlin Group.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:27:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 1)

WRONG!

John McCain IS A SATANIST!!!

like that?


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:39:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 1)

Yes, except with a leopard thong. I think that's what Eleanor Clift wears.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:00:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Figgy/Sricki" (2.00 / 1)

Heh

Shows what you know, I wear Eleanor's thong on my head every Sunday morning as I watch. She knows...I know...and now...YOU know...my shame is deep but my kinkmeter just rang the bell!!

WOOHOO

someone hide this comment YAY


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:07:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Haha, damn, you're kinky! (2.00 / 2)

Please tell me we won't use that awful Jello that has the nasty fruit mixed into it?


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:23:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haha, damn, you're kinky! (2.00 / 2)

Blech, no fruit (no offense hubby to be)

I think...strawberry or raspberry. If it's raspberry then I have a home field advantabe...muhahahahahahahaha

OK, I have no idea what I meant by that...can someone call me a cab...or hold my hair?


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haha, damn, you're kinky! (2.00 / 3)

Just puke in the cab, its only another fifty bucks.


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:28:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll call the cab. (2.00 / 1)

Won't be in much of a position to hold your hair, since I'll probably be holding mine. Speaking of which, I'd better go to bed before I pass out involuntarily!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:30:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll call the cab. (2.00 / 2)

Oh dear, then I'll cyber hold your hair while I drive the cyber cab and cyber vomit onto my own cyber feet and then return the cyber cab...I'll be wearing cyber crocs so I can cyber sponge them later.

Anyone who wants to discuss Jello wrestling and lesbians should make a regular comment, this is now too skinny and I can't fit. LMAO


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:37:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haha, damn, you're kinky! (2.00 / 2)

My mom always makes this nasty jello/fruit/celery/mayo(I'm not kidding.. freakin mayonaise) concoction for Thanksgiving.  Has anyone else been subjected to strange jello family recipes?  It sucks.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haha, damn, you're kinky! (2.00 / 2)

No but my Grandmere made her own mayonnaise which was yummy. She also drank a great deal so every turkey, when poked with a knife, exploded in a puff of smoke...sadly the turkey came out at 10 when it should have come out at 8. sigh.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:43:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haha, damn, you're kinky! (2.00 / 2)

Homemade mayonnaise?  It doesn't matter if she was toasting turkeys left and right, if you make your own mayo you've got a free pass.

Not that I'm a fan of mayonnaise, but I pay respect when it's due.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:48:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haha, damn, you're kinky! (2.00 / 2)

She was dazzling with the sauces...it was the main dishes that suffered. I loved her though, she was drink sodden yet awesome. She and her mayonnaise are missed!


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:55:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey, at least he rec'd the diary! n/t (2.00 / 2)

I don't think America is ready for that.  

Americans from all corners of the country won't be able to work, function, care for their families.  They'll be constantly worried about the carpet.  

The carpet!


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:09:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey, at least he rec'd the diary! n/t (2.00 / 1)

This carpet is clean
~ Zelda the little person who's last name I can't remember from poltergeist

A prayer...dear jeebus let me learn to use the google to find pictures of Zelda the little person that I might embed them. Amen


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:14:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, its always a bad idea before a hot date.


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:01:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 1)

A great big Chris Matthews HA! to you sir.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:05:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 2)

Ok.  Are you trying to turn me on?


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:06:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL, I think it may be my wine... (2.00 / 2)

but you guys are cracking me up.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:07:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL, I think it may be my wine... (2.00 / 1)

Your wine and my bourbon are blending to make a heady cocktail of hilarity.

Have you met my new gay boyfriend whathisname, he's FABULOUS!


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:10:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 1)

DUH!

Charlie Crist is gettin' hitched, I thought you might be "exploring" your options.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:08:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (2.00 / 2)

I'm starting to feel bad for the guy. This is the fifth time he's been engaged! It's so sad. Why he feels like he needs to take the Michael Jackson/Tom Cruise approach to proving his heterosexuality is beyond me.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:19:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (none / 0)

You DID hear the stuff about the rumored "Sex"/makeout tape, right? Apparently, Roger Stone is shopping it around.

Once again, the Michael Jackson approach. Remember "You Are Not Alone"? Remember how weird that made all of us feel?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:05:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I suppose your feeling is correct. n/t (none / 0)

I cannot begin to tell you how bummed I am that our power was out all night.

Will you come out to play more often?

;)

Great diary!!!
Even better commentary!
(ok, maybe not 'better'....but sure is damn funny!)

/me walks away mumbling about stupid electrical storms......


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:24:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 2)

I will pay for the video. But I think Sriki is too busy writing highly acclaimed diaries. Always nice to hear a different perspective and yours is easy for me to agree with. Thank you


by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:20:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 1)

Thanks!

I think the first hundred commenters get the pay per view for free...but thank you for offering. Hey, give your $39.95 to Obama :)


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:29:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 1)

Man did this Diary ever take a turn. Ha ha


by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:58:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 1)

It was a fun turn though, no pain in here!


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 05:08:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you kidding me? (none / 0)

People have been making that point for months now.  I made it yesterday in one of your diaries. LINK

Were you feeling too betrayed to realize how hard it would be for Obama to defend a no vote on this FISA bill?  The Repubs would thank their lucky stars if he voted against it.  That would give them the ability to lie about terrorism and scare the shit out of people again. I actually offered you an example of what McCain would and did say about it.

For someone who feels so deeply about FISA that you feel betrayed by Obama you don't seem to have researched his reasons for supporting the bill very thoroughly.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:05:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

People haven't been making that exact (2.00 / 2)

point for months now because the FISA thing just occurred.

You know, if you made that point, I thank you for attempting to help me. However, I felt disinclined to listen to anything you said. I think you'll find that when you're attacking someone, they are less likely to read your words with an open mind. Civility goes a long way. Figgy made her point in a respectful, admirable manner; hence, I listened, and I'm grateful to her.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:35:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: People haven't been making that exact (none / 0)

I don't mean to be unkind but....

The FISA thing has been going on for years. A similar bill was up before Congress in January 2008 and did not pass in the Senate.  As you can see from the link, the Republicans screamed bloody murder about it.    

How can you not know this and then claim to feel betrayed by Obama's position on the FISA bill?  I don't understand that.  

Also, my first two posts in your diary were civil.    


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:56:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I know the FISA thing has been (2.00 / 1)

going on for years; however, I sincerely thought Obama's stance on the issue was different. That's why I felt betrayed -- I thought he felt the same way I did about the FISA compromise. I was disturbed, so I didn't think clearly about why he'd chosen to vote for the bill. I was wrong, and I'm beginning to think my criticism of Obama was unfair and unwarranted. For that, I apologize, but again I would point out that I'm not the only one who felt that way -- a lot of his long-time supporters were very upset, too.

Your first two posts were reasonably civil, but when I tried to respond, you became very rude very quickly. I was already on the defensive in that diary because I knew a lot of people would be displeased. After months of defending Obama, people who knew me were pretty surprised to read it, and a couple of them acted like I'd become a whole different person. I haven't, but it was, admittedly, out of character for me to be that harsh. For you to attack me because I criticized Obama one time -- out of three months of standing up for him and praising him -- was insulting. You can ask anyone, and you'll find that I've been fair to him, even to the point of saying I was disappointed in Hillary's behavior (especially when she piled on during the last debate, when he was already being abused by the mods). Your attack was unfair, and I felt pretty indignant.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:15:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey Blue... (2.00 / 2)

When a vocal opponent comes around to your way of seeing things, it's in your own best interest to say, "Hey, cool, that's great, welcome!" instead of picking on why they didn't do it sooner, or properly, or in response to your posts. Sometimes it's just the specific way the argument is worded. It's all good, yo!

In other words, don't interrupt the love-fest just to get your digs in. We're trying to get a Democrat elected here.


by jere7my on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was not terribly upset (2.00 / 1)

That's a cop out IMHO.  Leaders lead.  He could've avoided this by not making those very clear promises during the primaries, but he chose to do that and he should keep his word.  

Wow, if I thought there was any point of agreement among all the liberal netroots, it'd be that Democrats should NEVER be afraid to take a stand out of fear of Republican attacks.  


by daria g on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 3)

cantankerous- [i dont hear that word much;]

FISA, its like being in between a rock and a hard place. frustrating to say the least, either way Sen. Obama would be criticized. From the left, for not 'standing against' Bush and the telecoms or the right for aiding terrorists [thats what they would say]. He chose to anger his most loyal supporters because they are LOYAL. this is not a deal breaker to the far left- it might be for righties who think McCain is stronger on National Security.

oh well.  About iraq, faith initiatives, and abortion: i've pretty much tried to stay clear from the diaries claiming he changed his position just 'cause it seems like the opposition is out in force lately-

[cool diary & rec'd :) ]


by alyssa chaos on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:10:40 AM EST

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 2)

Can't you see we are busy?


by MKyleM on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:12:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 2)

I saw. I saw. You kids, always partying it up on the internets.


[so jealous.]
by alyssa chaos on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:19:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 4)

Great diary. On all counts. I thought the FISA thing was more procedural, too. If his party hadn't stabbed all of us in the back in such huge numbers, he might have been able to still fight against it. But you're right, not only would he get those tough on terror ads, you'd get stuff that "he even went against his own party to help terrorists" or whatever.

I am not crazy about the shift in stance, but I can take it. It definitely screwed up their entire plan for November. People blame McCain for not coming up with a narrative, but Obama is the one that has escaped all the ones they've put out. So now they're going to take the fact that Obama is not the liberal they said he was and deciding to make THAT their big negative. It was great to see on Anderson Cooper that their GOP strategist, when asked point blank, had to say that Obama's new tone was a vast improvement for him. Yeah, that's gonna stick. When he gets closer to how you feel, you hit him harder and angrier, and somehow that means Americans are going to trust you?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:12:21 AM EST

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 4)

I'll take a moment from the nonsense for this, LOL

You are right on, that is exactly it and you're seeing it already. The opposition can only say it's a reversal, not that they disagree. It's an empty position and when pressed they have to agree. I see their fat faces compacently decreeing Obama a flip-flopper but they aren't loving the fact that his supposed adjustments place him squarely in the heart of America.

He's a winner! YAY us!


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:17:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 1)

on abortion. Abortion rights are too important. That is where Bill Clinton was extremely principled: He vetoed late term bans TWICE. I love him for that. he stood up for liberty in the face of facism TWICE.

That being said, Obama wants to be elected. I'll go by my motto: Elect first, ask questions last.


by Lakrosse on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:19:13 AM EST

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 4)

I have ZERO fears regarding his stance on choice. Those famed present votes were accompanied by extraordinary comments on the floor. He knew what his oppostion was doing. They didn't care about babies, they cared about shifting the law. He called them on it on the floor of the Illinois Senate and ended it by not giving them a vote they could use against him.

Look at his wife, look at his family. This is a man who cares deeply about women. The right plays games with families and feelings, he protects us all.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:32:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 3)

I'm mostly with you, but there is TREMENDOUS ground to be gained from just a very minor shift in language. I know many, many people who would be about a hundred times more likely to vote for a Democrat if it weren't for abortion. Some wouldn't buy it if Obama went forward with his plan to frame things in terms of preventing abortion instead of ending it, but many would. Don't get me wrong, he should make it abundantly clear that he has no intention of allowing Roe v Wade to be reversed. But he can allow that perhaps the Democrats should be more eager to stop abortions instead of having more. DaleA's religion aside (I still don't know what religion celebrates abortion, she/he didn't say).


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:35:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 3)

I put that pretty inartfully myself. I don't mean that he should put the focus on ENDING abortion as a practice, he should make it so that anyone who doesn't want to have one has every opportunity in the world to find ways to stay OUT of that situation.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:36:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 3)

That was very artful.

I have the same problem talking about this issue.

The real problem is that anti-choice groups are also anti birth control and anti sex education. Republicans as a whole are anti family planning and anti early childhood education and day care.

Reduction comes from a combination of reducing unwanted pregnancies and increasing support for pregnant women and young children. Republicans aren't really interested in that...they want women to be subordinate PERIOD. That is the problem and one that people recognize but few politicians are skilled at communicating.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:43:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 3)

Well, ideally, and I HOPE... that Obama recognizes that there is such a mass chasm between those groups and their members. You can see that just from looking at the difference between the numbers of people that oppose abortion and the number that oppose birth control. Granted, part of that difference is composed of people for whom abortion isn't a dealbreaker, but for a very significant number, especially in suburban areas, it can make a difference.

Just to put it clearly, my mother is one who votes based on abortion. She always has, and although she doesn't like a lot of things the Republicans stand for, it's just a matter of principle she will not put aside. But she sent me a Youtube video of Obama that really impressed her where he was talking about the need for a more progressive drug policy!!!! These are people that Obama can reach if he just tries and demonstrates that he shares their values, even if he disagrees with the policy positions traditionally considered to espouse those values.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:57:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 2)

I think he can reach them, but it's a tough row to hoe. It just is.

People get very touchy about babies and that is the hard part, separating the good thing that is abortion on demand in its early stages and the good thing that is wonderful babies. That difference is all about unwanted pregnancies and increased options for pregnant women. It's the heart and soul of the problem. It sickens me that certain idealogues on the right USE this issue to gain political points and purposely do nothing to implement policies that could legitimately decrease the vast majority of abortions in this country and around the world. If this is important to your mother maybe you can talk to her about helping young women take care of their babies...move her laser vision off one issue and show her that she can personally reduce abortion by focusing on life, instead of on oppression.

I think she'd find a great deal to like in Obama, she sounds like a loving person. If only she really understood that her good heart and her vote could diminish the number of abortions in her lifetime. It could, and she could. Good luck to you, your mother sounds like a great woman, I imagine someone like her could do a lot for young women in trouble :)


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:05:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (none / 0)

The real problem is that anti-choice groups are also anti birth control and anti sex education. Republicans as a whole are anti family planning and anti early childhood education and day care.

Yes and no.  The more ideological of them are, certainly, but I think the rank-and-file are more intelligent on the issue.  My mom is the most anti-abortion person I know - she won't vote for anyone who isn't completely anti-abortion, no matter what she thinks of their other stances - and she's totally cool with birth control and comprehensive sex-ed.  And she absolutely doesn't think women should be subordinate - if even a hint of that came out of our mouths as children, we had soap in them within a matter of minutes.

I honestly think the Christian Right have overreached with the "save the babies" abortion language - because it's brought some people over to the anti-choice side who would otherwise be with us.  Which has been fine when they've been running anti-choice ideologues, but when it comes down to it, those people can be peeled off by pointing out (a) the real, true beliefs of their ideological leaders, and (b) the agreement among reasonable people of the goodness of the goal of reducing abortion.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:47:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

my motto: Elect first, ask questions last. (2.00 / 5)

If Obama had actually done anything worthy of more than a raised eyebrow I'd be the first to criticize him. But some people are getting bent out of shape over dogma, trivialities, and outright GOP talking points against Obama.

A few such fools are no doubt real Democratic supporters of Obama's who, now that they don't have Hillary to criticize any longer, fulfill that need on him (like Moulitsas). While others are unreconciled Hillary supporters who just want to say; "I told ya so!" as Bush is sworn in to his third term. And thirdly there are McTroll posers who will dish out laughter as their final insult to those who sing along with their hateful tune.


by Beren on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:05:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my motto: Elect first, ask questions last. (2.00 / 2)


Mojo for totally getting Kos right. He needs to prove to himself and everyone else that he won't support Obama simply because he worked to get him elected. Not necessarily a bad thing, possibly something noble. But it DOES make him an odd duck.
If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:09:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

odd duck (2.00 / 2)

I see him more as a fool whose britches have gotten too small for him. I also see him as one who puts his own interests first, which goes with what you said.


by Beren on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:18:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my motto: Elect first, ask questions last. (2.00 / 1)

I read there all the time, but I gave up posting after a few tries. It's a hard place both too insular and too expansive at the same time. Uncomfortable.

That said, his attitude is consistent. He has "given" more than $2300 to Obama in promotion as it is. No canvasser living has had more of an impact than Kos. So if he wants to snit over FISA and spend his money on Congressional candidates, well FUCK YEAH. They need it. He made his little poopy diaper comment on the front page so it got attention, well he made the blog he gets to poop on it. He gets the job done and is allowed his snits. Whatevs ;)


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:18:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my motto: Elect first, ask questions last. (2.00 / 2)

I agree with you 1000% Some of them are all the things you list, but some of them aren't.

Sricki seems like a pretty honest broker, she was incredibly fair during the primary wars. Her dismay at the FISA thing was honest, and she had the relaxed attitude about the other "republican framed" horseshit that I'd expect from someone who wasn't using their vote for revenge.

I wrote this for people who had honest misgivings, they are real. Not everyone is a troll, some issues just make people's stomachs turn over. I get that, I've felt that way myself. I don't know if I said it better than anyone else, but I said it my way. I'm also really happy to discuss my feelings with anyone. Maybe that's what's important, not being so angry and frustrated that you keep great comments and conversation like we've had here from flourishing. I'm having a great night. I hope you are too!


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:14:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my motto: Elect first, ask questions last. (none / 0)

I have to say that I think your motto is terrible.

My number one concern is also winning the election.  But that doesn't mean people must or should shut up or censor themselves for the next six months.  What gets discussed in the liberal blogosphere at this point is not going to seriously impinge on our electoral prospects.  Actual swing voters, both indies and democrats, don't come near this place or Kos in significant numbers and the "leakage" from here into other media that does reach swing voters is still pretty minimal.  On the other hand, what gets discussed here over the next six months is vital for establishing the orientation of this part of the progressive democratic base toward Obama.  And its increasingly obvious that this orientation has to be one of skepticism that does not give him the benefit of the doubt once in office.

I'll be happy to move on and discuss other issues once I feel that enough people have really internalized what should be obvious - that progressives can't trust Obama farther than they can throw him.  Until then, I'll keep asking questions.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:01:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have to say that I think your motto is terrible. (2.00 / 1)

I was quoting another person who said that. I think it's terrible too.

But on the other hand, attacking the Democratic nominee over dogma, trivialities, and bitterness, is serving the GOP and the forces of reaction rather than the cause of progress.

If and when Obama ever does something meaningfully wrong rather than just just nuance in a way I don't prefer, I'll be all over him.

But some childish people must criticize Obama who is with them on 99% of the issues for the sheer fun of it while giving McSlime a free pass for truely revolting actions and pronouncements.


by Beren on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:37:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have to say that I think your motto is terri (none / 0)

Oops, sorry for attributing the quote to you.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have to say that I think your motto is terri (none / 0)

Understandable since I forgot to put quotation marks around it.


by Beren on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:28:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm for his triangulation, EXCEPT (2.00 / 1)

"Elect first, ask questions last."

God help us all.


by daria g on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:50:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 3)

Your take on faith-based initiatives is the same as my own.  First let me say that I understand the argument that this would blur the division between church and state.  

However, from my perspective the issue is much more about supply and demand: there is a far larger demand for charitable services in this country than the supply provided by federal and state agencies.  That disparity would likely continue to exist for many years no matter how much more money was pumped into providing such services, for the simple reason that there are only so many locations where the federal and state governments have a presence.  On the other hand, practically every U.S. town with a population greater than 1 has a church.  Moreover, because they are a part of their local communities, it's possible that religious organizations would be more innovative in their approach to services than the government could ever be.

The question then becomes whether you are willing to spend additional money to reach poor people who would never otherwise be able to obtain government assistance, even if there was a possibility that, although many religious organizations would abide by the applicable regulations, some organizations may break the rules and engage in proselytization.  In my mind the idea is worth a try.  People shouldn't go hungry over an abstract principle, especially if there are safeguards in place to curb most abuses.  

Again, I understand that people have strong feelings about this, but those on the other side should at least consider the possibility that opposition to such a policy could ultimately reduce the amount and quality of services provided to the poor.  The federal government cannot be everywhere.


by rfahey22 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:15:28 AM EST

Re: Ammunition (2.00 / 1)

That's exactly it. For all our secularism, churches are THERE. Every little town has one or more in easy driving distance. These are the people who have food banks, pay the heating bills for the poorest of the congregants, have afterschool and weekend care programs that allow parents to work crazy hours. They desperately need money, and some of them may resist the bans on proselytizing and discrimination, but most won't. Most of the people who do this good work live in the real world and take what help they can get. Barack Obama has seen this in action and understands it. He'll be a good steward for such a program because he, unlike W, really does want to help people.


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:23:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There are churches and pastors (none / 0)

who will gladly take the tax money and put it in their own and friends' pockets.  

the government can set up these programs of which you speak.  That's why I pay taxes, not so some churches over which there will be little oversight can spend the money on their projects.

Terrible idea this church/state marriage - if Obama wants to "help people" he might rethink his FISA stance.


by Xanthe on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:06:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are churches and pastors (none / 0)

There are some churches that'll do that, sure. Game the system for personal gain. Some, not all, not most, probably not many, but some.

How does that make them any different from any other recipient of federal funds?


by jere7my on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are churches and pastors (none / 0)

Harder to prosecute and exempt from income taxes, other than the pastor's & other staff's salaries.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 02:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Raspberry Jello and Lesbian Pay-per view (2.00 / 1)

It's 4:38 AM and I'm bored :D

YES I'm a serious person and this is a serious diary...I'm just feeling not so serious anymore...


by figgy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:39:34 AM EST

Re: Raspberry Jello and Lesbian Pay-per view (none / 0)

Again....why oh why did my power have to be out all night?

;)